Can you help me with a dispute between me and my landlord?

Question

Okay, so here's the deal. A couple months ago we were renting a house that we've since moved out of. It wasn't a shack but it won't be appearing on the front page of a Home and Garden magazine any time soon. The landlord (let's call him Jim) was a handyman who fixed up most of the place himself.

One day I came home more than a little upset and slammed the front door shut behind me only to hear the sound of the glass window in the door shatter. I'm in no way trying to shrug off the blame in this situation. If I had been using the door like a normal human being and been using more care, the door would still be intact today. I talked to the landlord about it and was of course embarrassed about the situation and told him that I would eat the cost of getting it replaced one way or another.

It took a couple weeks to get the glass ordered because I was saving up to buy it from Home Depot and it turns out I was looking at the wrong kind of glass and all sorts of dumb mistakes on my part. In the mean time we had taped a couple trash bags over the empty hole in the door to keep the heat in and the cold out.

Jim and I talked again and he told me I was looking to get the wrong type of glass and I just had to order it from the place he always goes which was nearby the house. So I got it ordered and went to pick it up when it arrived and the lady I ordered it from were chatting for a few while the piece was retrieved from the back. Now this is where things get interesting.

During the conversation she asked me what the glass was for and I told her that I was replacing a window in a door. She told me that it's illegal to put that kind of glass (which was the same as what was originally installed) in a door that leads from the house to the outside because they break too easily and if can be a safety hazard (children could fall into them, etc.). And she is no longer able to sell me the glass and instead gives me glass that's made of a different material that bends and is more like plastic than glass. This material would never have shattered or even broken if the door had been slammed a hundred times as hard.


When I go to finally install the glass I find that the slot for the window is little more than a rectangle cut through the the two pieces of wood that make up the inside/outside-of-the-house faces of the door. These two slabs are held together and supported by what looks like some wood and wood glue inside. I'm no carpenter and I could be wrong, but the door seemed like it was thrown together in a garage. The old piece of glass had basically just been glued in with caulk around the edge.

I was pissed at this point. We had already been planning on moving out and gotten most of our stuff boxed up. Jim's son came over to collect keys and everything before we moved because Jim was and still is in Florida.I told him that I couldn't get the glass in and I told him what the woman at the glass company told me and he seemed uninterested. So the glass remains in the house but not put in. We've received no word whether we'll be getting our security deposit back or not, and our utility bill is a good $400 more than normal.

I'm not on yahoo answers looking to collect facts for a legal case or anything. But I am looking for opinions from anyone who is informed about this kind of stuff. If we don't get the security deposit back and have to fork over the money for the heating bill are we just SOL or is there anything we can do?

Answer 1

If you actually said "...told him that I would eat the cost of getting it replaced one way or another.", then you pretty much made yourself responsible. What you should have done, was asked him to replace it, and send you the bill for the glass and his time....or asked him to split the cost, by donating his time, and you just pay for the glass, or split the bill for a third party to replace it.



You mentioned the door had wood facing, inside and out, with wood between the skins to hold the glass - this sounds like a hollow core door that was adapted for a glass insert, and that would be the typical way to do it, often with the glass being held in place by some wood trim. In most locations today, a rental property, by code, is required to have a steel exterior entry door. We can't confirm from your description that the 'front door' was the 'exterior entry' door, but if that is the case, at some point, it probably should have been replaced with a steel door. This does not let you off the hook, if this is the door that was present when you rented the home.....there's no indication here, of how old the home is (whether certain things would have been 'grandfathered'), if it's a single family dwelling, or multiple, when it was converted to rental property, etc..... too many unknowns to say firmly what was 'illegal'.



The utility bill being higher could be a combination of things.... increase in rates, or the utility reading the meter where they may have been estimating it in the past, or...perhaps you went a few weeks without glass in that door. You're responsible for the utility bill, either way. If you went weeks without glass.... a higher bill could have been predicted...another example of where you should have just let the landlord get the glass replaced, and paid for it.



If however, you want to fight this...you're going to need a lawyer, one familiar with the landlord / tenant laws where the house is at, and some research is going to have to be done. For example, when was the house converted to rental? Is the location the home is in zoned for that to begin with? What are the laws and building codes for a home converted to rental property? Did the owner have the proper building permits for the work that was done to the home? These are just questions to start with.... a lawyer familiar with the area will surely be able to come up with more. It goes without saying... this is probably going to be just as expensive, if not more, than simply paying for the glass to be installed. I wouldn't be surprised if a Judge said you would still be liable for the utility bill, given it doesn't sound like you attempted a repair immediately.



The Judge could decide that since you rented the place as it was...you're liable for the costs... including court costs....then you'd really be in a hole. He could still decide that, even if he penalized the landlord for not having everything up to code.



In most places today.... when a residential home is converted to a rental property, there is a whole list of things that has to be done, because there are things you can do to your own home and get away with, that cannot be done to a rental property. A wooden hollow core door is just one example - zoning, wiring, entry/exit, steps, plumbing and so on...it all has to be updated. The property owner has to get the code requirements for a rental property, get the appropriate permits and inspections, and once the property passes, he is given a certificate deeming the property up to code, ready to be lived in, and can then be rented.



My suggestion is to consider this an expensive life lesson.... pay to get the replacement glass installed, call the utility and make arrangements to make payments on the outstanding bill, and hopefully you left the place in good enough condition to get part of your security deposit back. Most landlords will have a rental cleaned professionally, and that usually comes out of the deposit. If you want to fight it... then get a lawyer...you can't do this half-way, or take shortcuts, and expect to come out ahead. Taking your former landlord to court can be risky, and you should expect it to take some time.... this is not something that would be quickly resolved.



I've never been a landlord, but by doing some rehab work for landlords, I've learned a few things over the years. Do not simply abandon the situation....attempt to get it resolved one way or the other, including that outstanding utility bill.... failure to see that it gets paid could go against your credit history, even if they decide to go after the landlord for it, instead of you.... the laws on whether the tenant is liable, or the landlord vary by location...but it could still get reported on your credit history.



Good Luck

Answer 2

The glass being broken was your fault, and getting it replaced was your responsibility, whether you replaced it yourself or paid someone to do it. You could have gotten it replaced much sooner--the same day or the next day if you had gotten on it yourself by telling a glass shop what you were using it for, or if you had called a glass guy in to do it, so I don't know why your extra large heat bill is anyone's responsibility but yours. And the glass still wasn't in when you moved, so the bill for installing it may well come out of your security deposit if that is allowed where you live. Damage deposit/security deposit, they are much the same thing in most places.



I can't see the door, but it doesn't sound like a complicated thing to install a piece of glass in. Unless the whole door including the glass was made in a factory, the way you describe the glass being held in with caulking sounds pretty normal. Single sheets of glass are held in by glazing points and window putty, which isn't a whole lot different from caulking when it gets right down to it. No doubt that kind of glass was legally installed originally. Building codes change. These days they call for different glass than what was legal 40 years ago. We'll have to take the glass shop person's word about not being able to sell you a plain sheet of glass for that use to replace a broken one.



You could have put a piece of plywood over the hole, temporarily, and that would have kept out a lot more cold than the plastic did. It would have been cheaper to call someone in than to pay a $400 heat bill.



Sorry, but I think you're going to lose at least part of the damage deposit, and you are SOL on the heat bill.



You rent a place the way it is, and I don't know what it's like everywhere but where I live no landlord in a single family home is required to update anything merely because the house is tenanted. Rented premises are treated the same way as a single family home lived in by the owner. If you do work that requires a building permit, then the new work must meet current codes, but you do not have to change everything to meet current codes. The door may have been flimsy or home made. I don't know, but it was what it was when you got there.

Answer 3

In my opinion, if the clerk knows what is what and the landlord knowingly put in illegal glass he is responsible, add to that it wasn't a malicious act. I know in Ontario Canada we used what was called single or double glazed glass.



It sounds like what the lady sold you was plexyglas, actually a plastic which will yellow from repeated exposure to sunlight as well as scratch fairly easily.



You did buy a replacement and tried your best to put it into what appears to be a custom made door and not standard stock therefor I don't see how you could be expected to do anything more and he should bear a good part of the blame.

Answer 4

Since you have already bought the glass and showed good faith in replacing it he should only charge you for his labor to install it. You should get all or most of your deposit back depending on your past rental payments if they were on time and how well your relationship was.

Answer 5

You broke it so it comes out of your security deposit, regardless of what the lady told you. If your landlord is fair then he should give you whatever money is left.

Answer 6

You broke it, you fix it.



PS...never take legal advice from a store clerk at Home Depot.